I nearly always enjoy these podcasts and when Russ is throwing his net wide and doesn’t hesitate to interview people with whom he has a fundamental disagreement it is extra interesting. Add in nostalgia for the early days of computers and the internet and a great interest in the future of many things including models of employment and the sharing economy and the monetization of the internet … and it, well, it seems well-worth sharing in my non-monetized way. Talks about me, an author without much readership but putting it out there for some reason for free as does Russ despite his abiding faith in the market, talks about the Uber driver who can or can’t make a go of it, talks about algorithms making sure no one works 30 hours to qualify for health insurance ….
(And I must interrupt myself to say why do you want guaranteed insurance not care? I fear the coopting of language by business … what you want is universal care, not insurance, and they are not the same thing at all, because one involves insurance companies and the other involves doctors and hospitals. Not the same infrastructure! You don’t take an ambulance to Manulife when you break your leg! But back to Russ …)
They disagree and agree and neither backs down but they are civil … a model for discussion if nothing else. But let me take you back to a day when there were only about 30 web pages …. and then to a Keynesian future where we do not work for money nearly as hard and have time to pursue other pursuits, as machines handle the worst stuff. Utopian disaster or freedom of intellect? A wide-ranging discussion and sure to both infuriate and inform:
Tim O’Reilly of O’Reilly Media talks with EconTalk host Russ Roberts about his career in technology and media and the challenges facing low-wage workers as technology advances. Topics include the early days of the Internet, the efficacy of regulation to protect workers, and the poetry of Elizabeth Bishop.
Tim O’Reilly on Technology and Work
Have a wonderful Wednesday, and I hope things work out … and if they don’t I hope you do … at least a walk and a few minutes of remembering to enjoy being alive.
read the first half, to about 29 minutes, not sure how to get the rest yet.
this from the podcast, “Well, should we be cracking down on this on-demand economy? you know, actually should be looking at the regular wage economy and noticing that the things that they thought were workplace protections have been routed around. Because one of the things in that scheduling software is that it makes sure that nobody gets more than 30 hours a week, so they are not eligible for health benefits, and other rich benefits that they pay to their core employees. And so you have this sort of underclass. And because those people have no visibility into their schedule, or very little visibility, they can’t actually find other work at all.”
about half of the job postings i can locate in my area are by “temporary agencies”. there definitely now is a class of workers that are permanently temporary. that means besides the situation above, any full time position workers are fired after 3 months no matter as to performance. that is the business plan – never pay any benefits. because so many people are desperate for work, they churn them through. it’s like you aren’t even given a number anymore. you are just a chunk of meat. they are coming up with some pretty creative names for these temp firms too. you say to yourself, funny i never heard of this company before, so you look them up, and they are a nationwide company with seemingly thousands of employees, but somehow only a few months old. a little further digging to find out that they are a specialized temp firm with a technical sounding name. it is really discouraging. i have turned down these jobs so far, but will have no choice very soon.
the “Speaker of the House” banana rama is pretty funny, well until one realizes that this person is 3rd in line to the presidency. but it is looking next to impossible for a tea nut pick to get enough House votes now. the tide has definitely turned. in fact it is looking likely that the next Speaker will have to be even more moderate than Boehner in order to get some D votes, if the teabaggers continue obstructing.
but i ramble.
Yes, I was thinking of you when that fellow brought up algorithms. And it hadn’t occurred to me that by changing the schedule and putting it up last minute you would prevent people from looking for other work. But from a big employers point of view the difference between 29.9 hours and 30.1 is hugely expensive. It is a good example of unintended consequence, and frankly makes a mockery of your insurance rules. Ours doesn’t seem so bad, and we are uninsured now and have been for years – but everything catastrophic is covered and we pay for prescriptions and dental and eyes and anything considered cosmetic. A sweet deal even if we pay almost 65 per cent of all earnings eventually in tax, which is really too much and not necessary. 40% income tax and they whittle the rest at the pump and on every purchase. On my mind because we have an election next week and there hasn’t been much of a campaign other than who would cost more as they all offer similar pap during this silly season. “Jump start the economy” “quality day care” are about as controversial as things seem to have got, except for the humour of even the Conservative’s ethics fellow being in jail. They enjoyed the trough greatly and I think might be done.
And temp companies as middlemen running the herd for the big companies is really nauseating. My only hope for you if you did take one of those jobs is finding a good fit and somehow finding a more long term thing. But it is like a summer job isn’t it? I worked for a temp firm during university days and actually loved it because I have such a short attention span and wasn’t too impoverished. What a nightmare.
I thought the interviewee did a good job of describing the hell of modern life and employment to Russ Roberts and combating theory, and that they both accepted defeat in knowing what the cure was.
And speaking of nightmare jobs – Speaker – it seems to me it is probably a career killer to take that job because you will please no one. Only hope for fame is that your “third heart beat” position pans out and you magically become president.
And good morning. We are off to Penetang to visit the in-laws this evening and much looking forward to getting to the Georgian Bay. Abandoning any hope of owning any of it though, pretty much.
i can’t seem to get the second half of the podcast in printed form. i am a fast reader, so prefer to do that, and don’t want to give the time to listen to it right now. but maybe later.
the republicans are now pressuring Paul Ryan to take the Speaker position. as you may remember, he lives a stones throw away from me. if he does get nominated, i think i will start posting pictures of Janesville, articles, maybe first hand accounts of life here in hometown USA. i really don’t know how politicians at the federal level can not be held accountable for life on main street, especially when their home towns are so totally economically wrecked, like Janesville Wisconsin.
and let me say this again. i am not partisan. Obama has absolutely sucked, Hillary would likely be even worse. but the answer is not to drift even further to the right in this country. that is how we got here today. 30+ years of this neoliberalism crap, and calls for even more. there is no real difference between the D’s and the R’s anymore at all.
i might have some more comments on the job search. i had another interview yesterday. what really hurts is just like is mentioned in the podcast. i have had to turn down some side jobs, and also a short term temp job, because of all these pissing in the wind interviews for jobs that don’t even pay enough to live on. but… i ramble.
thanks for putting up with my rants.
Good Morning. We are going to drive this morning, having opted not to drive tired and in the dark. A good call.
But first I get my quiet moment … I have really learned to love the early mornings, even though it would be sweet to sleep in sometimes. But I have never been wired for morning sleep, even as a teenager, brothers could sleep ’till two and I would be up by ten at the latest. Dad was like this, and we would find him reading on the dock before seven or out paddling.
in my area even heavy manufacturing jobs are paying in the $9-$10 hour range, and employ “permanent temporary” workers – 29 hours/wk as discussed above, or they work your butt off for one day less than 3 months and then can you. below is a job that i was contacted for last week! believe it or not, a temporary job through a temporary agency, through a sub-contractor, for John Deere. basically a sub, for a sub, for John Deere! everybody wins except the guy doing the work! you see, this is Governor Scott Walker the big badass union buster WINNING! the reason this skill set even exists in Janesville is because this economic crater of a city once hosted a General Motors assembly plant! what a great transitional job for middle class dad with a couple kids, who got permanently laid off from GM a few years back! anyway, look at these reviews! Kelly Services (the temporary agency) is filling these jobs here – they are the ones that actually fire you after 3 months. what i hear through the grape vine is that no one will get hired on permanently, never ever, as there is a vast and bottomless pool of skilled yet so very desperately unemployed workers here. well, see for yourself. the first review is exactly what is happening here.
http://www.indeed.com/cmp/Landair/reviews?fcountry=US
note that Landair is actually a trucking, distribution, and logistics company, until just recently when they decided to dabble in heavy equipment manufacturing. this is what i meant in that other post about these companies popping up like weeds around here, exemplifying those free market principles by taking advantage… er i mean making the best of this brutal economy.
but i also did find this article to add to your subject matter, and to end on a positive note. i am really glad someone, somewhere is talking about this stuff even if not around here yet.
https://medium.com/the-wtf-economy/workers-in-a-world-of-continuous-partial-employment-4d7b53f18f96
and that’s a rant.
Good Morning and Happy Thanksgiving Canadian-wise.
Sketchy internet and doing my darnedest to be social, so sorry for the absentee landlady act. And to top off what has otherwise been a beautiful weekend, a close friend of the in-laws died on Saturday, adding a strange bittersweetness to yesterday’s turkey.
That was a good article about employment and I just wish it weren’t so relevant to a woodpecker’s existence.
Back in a bit. Niece to be driven to bus in Elmvale.
Happy Thanksgiving and thanks for the sympathy. Same back at you. Fewer weddings but more funerals is a tough trend to break.
I am willing to stay on this topic for a while if you can stand it. I think it is good to talk about it – and not just for my own mental and emotional health. There are lots of us. We need to find each other and help out. What has happened has been no accident, nor has it been the fault of those struggling in this economy. A good first step is to quit internalizing the pain – that is part of a PR strategy. Next is to get angry. 🙂
Well maybe for a little while.
See ya when you get back.
I am not sure about this, but have a sneaking suspicion that our delightful Uber driver from California might tune in here, which makes me ludicrously happy, and he was feeling the squeeze of lower fares from Uber, and I think it is a very important topic. My hubby just about lost it working for Alcatel Lucent that was like a snake gobbling up the smaller places he worked. Now we are lucky that he can command a good wage when he works, but we are on a per diem basis, without insurance or pension. Something that many of our neighbours would find appalling living as we do in a town that is half government and has three universities in it. I heard recently, possibly on the podcast that Woodpecker posted, that all family fortunes begin with a theft. We are sitting on the remains of family fortune that was created to a large extent by early forestry, a theft indeed. But it has come to its end. Living off rent, so to speak. I did enjoy that they discussed the concept of rent and John Stuart Mill, etc. – topics generally forgotten but not gone. My side of the family was more recently self-made but then being an academic turned into quite the sinecure, and I feel rather guilty about it all.
Home sweet home!
Just can’t resist … still love this. Captured my teenage heart.
And the Spanish subtitles seem to add something:
hard to believe that came out 40 years ago.
i am getting a job offer tomorrow. how the mighty have fallen. i have not made so little since right after college. but i will have to take it. after a few days i think i will feel thankful that i did not end up homeless.
At this point anything is certainly better than nothing. I hope it pans out … fingers crossed so to speak. And yes, I am amazed you have made it this far and kept your roof – kudos.
i aced the whiz quiz today, so it’s official. it’s hardly a living, but it will buy us time.
i had a great big long rant ready to post, but i just deleted it all. instead i chose to be thankful because like i said, we still are pretty close to being homeless.
what has happened to the USA is a travesty. so i still may post a cleaned up version of my rant later. 🙂
Ah, the most important qualification, clean urine. Because otherwise the terrorists win, or you would have to live in a horrible place like Canada, where we only pee in bottles to make sure we are taking our drugs. Happened to me both with Oxy and now with the legal weed. Kind of a pleasant yin to your yang. Or actually, not at all. Just a more rational and humane system, if I dare say so.
Semi virtue rewarded in that dog walked as I stumped around on my peg in lovely fall weather, and now a thunder storm to save me from raking the lawn which I really wasn’t going to do. Somehow got all tightened up and trying yoga, etc. Oops, lights just dimmed. Hmnnn. I think it is time for a trip to the back yard.
Oh, and to make Roz Chast happy I should mention that I just made homemade peanut butter cups that are actually just squares, which I am going to send to NFLD to fatten #1 offspring, and also made more birdsuet cakes only had to use lard because my tallow source has failed me for the moment.
All quiet on the Eastern front …
And Good Morning! Had the most unexpected sleep … woke around 6:30 which is already an hour later, and then managed to sleep until almost 8:30! A miracle … but I had intended to blog about something …. all lost to good old Morpheus, and that is a welcome trade.
I can almost feel a rant coming on about this Pacific rim trade thingy with the silly three letter acronym name to fool people. Any “free trade” deal I have ever seen was really the opposite, and just protectionism designed to keep the large happy and drive the small out of business.
And our election is snnnnoooooozeville, thank goodness, with the most irritating thing being the Conservative ads that refer to the Liberal leader by his first name, with such dripping scorn, as though his name alone was unelectable. I don’t like the guy, and do think he is a loathsome, empty suit, born with a silver spoon, but it isn’t his first name that is the problem. His last name, yes … that is a problem, as we have been ruled by a Trudeau in the past. But they just call him Justin all the time, to make him seem like a kid. Solid governance from such playground mentality seems unlikely.
Nirvana out Leadbelly’s Leadbelly on this one:
Not exactly a morning song, and neither is this, but the opening lyric, “Sell the kids for food” made it a hit in our house … good to keep them on their toes.
And speaking of not in bloom, we have left to the last minute bringing in the hose and emptying the pressure washer, etc., and tonight it is meant to go down to -3 Celsius. My prediction for tomorrow’s weather is leaves, but today’s forecast is clean driveway and drain everything. Now when I say clean, I mean rearrange junk, don’t get me wrong. For some reason we seem to be a repository for junk and quite literally the other day a neighbour garbage picked what looks like a lovely gas lawnmower, but he doesn’t have a lawn and left it in our driveway for hubby to fix. And then there is Dale’s toilet … but yesterday, remarkably, when I got home from dog walking the neighbour across the way called out that he was throwing out, yes, throwing out, his bird feeder. But not a little one, one of those green square metal squirrel-proof things on a pole that they sell at Lee Valley. So I did take it, and am going to see if it is also not too pigeony, as the suet had solved the pigeon problem, but I miss feeding the other birds. Just a question of how messy they are when they eat – might need a screen to keep the seed up off the ground. But it is astonishing to me the things people just throw out. I guess that is why we are a repository … question answered. But now to go and wade through it all, and stuff that bird feeder in the backyard!
oops. it is spelled Kilroy, a real persons actual surname. i remember seeing that graffiti as a kid, so i always associated it with returning Viet Nam vets, but i just read that it goes back to WWII. but anyhow…
i have been meaning to tell you that my new job is on a just built fully automated line. i will be working with robots. so not only did i beat out a hundred candidates for a spot, i will be tethered to the beast itself. but some one else with a little less education or work experience has no job at all. bittersweet. i am embarrassed to admit it, but i will only start at 10.20/hr. for perspective, i ran the kitchen at a popular “State Street” bar in Madison before finishing college and made 6.50/hr with benefits. that was in 1990 – 25 years ago.
i was slowly going homeless working cash jobs, until a medical emergency put me on the fast track. so a person must do what they have to do. i never really wanted to admit that a person with my background would not be able to get back into a decent paying middle class job. yup – even i was a bit too optimistic! but many of my friends are actually proud of me because i lived by my wits and played by my own rules for almost 10 years.
i don’t start until the following Monday – and i will be on 2nd shift. i got the last spot, otherwise it was third shift. i did enough of that when i worked in telecom. it was wrecking my health. so would prefer first shift – but again, i am thankful. i was afraid i was going to have to accept even below 10/hr to work anywhere close to home.
i am going to wrap some stuff up, and get back. i believe that i still have a decent rant percolating inside me. it would be a waste not to go off a little since this blog topic is perfect rant material.